omin I agree with you too on a big scale. Its pretty arrogant of...

omin I agree with you too on a big scale. Its pretty arrogant of man to think that he can effect the solar sytem. As a historian theres been several major ice ages that have iced over 60% of the inhabitable earth. And Theres been several periods when the earth was so warm the sea level was 300 meters higher covering most the good lands we all live in now. That happened before industrialisation, and even before and during mans time on earth. Agreed. its a fact. that crap happens anyway with or without man.

But on the other hand why is the air almost unbreathable many days in Beijing,Mexico City, Hong kong , shanghai, LA, Sao Paulo, etc..-it wasn't the case before those cities were there. or even in clean Chiang mai and Singapore in chaff burning season . thats only to do with man living there pumping emissions into the air. Why is Easter Island treesless now and most the species gone?, It cos of man not universal global warming., So mans negative influence on nature is also a fact too.

Both factors come into play. both influence us, and the future. And as it stands so far we pleb humans can only affect the one side. Best we try to sort that bit out first.

London was almost unliveable in in the 1890's with the numbers of horses for transportation crapping and farting - Ice cars gave it a reprieve - EV cars can do that again now.

this is frankly a big discussion that wont make CLA SP rise or fall short term. So Im going to bed. Its late.