Hi Kam,
"Well the expression of God's Revelation being the language of the essence of what it means to be human is a common concept in Baha'i circles."
Of course the issue has always been what constitutes "the expression of God's Revelation" as it spawns a religion.
Especially since all religions claim to be the result of Revelation.
This is one of the reasons I feel Baha'u'llah should have externally detached his message from the existing Abrahamic religions entirely and used a different vehicle, though it was in the same spirit that Mohammad initially tried to include Jews and Christians. Perhaps the ongoing Bahai development will gradually do this.
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"The Baha'i Writings essentially abrogate this kind of thinking (Descartes Cartesian duality) by defining nature as follows:
"All the conditions and perfections that the philosophers attribute to nature are the same as have been attributed to the Primal Will (Logos) in the Holy Scriptures. "
Abdu'l-Baha also goes on to say:
"The deniers ask in their disbelief: ‘Where is that world? For whatsoever hath no actual material existence is sheer imagination.’ But the truth is that the world of existence is a single world, although its stations are manifold in accordance with the manifold realities of things. For instance, the world of mineral, plant, and animal existence is the same world. Despite this, the animal world in relation to the world of the vegetable is a spiritual reality and another world and abode.”
So, it can be concluded that there is no such thing as the supernatural. EVERYTHING is the natural world, and within the context that lightening and thunder were once considered as having spiritual origins, we can extrapolate a lot from these concepts."
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No issue of any substance there for me though not sure most Philosophers would agree with the claim "All the conditions and perfections that the philosophers attribute to nature ...". For a start it would need to be expressed in a 40 page essay rather than one sentence !!
"But the truth is that the world of existence is a single world, although its stations are manifold in accordance with the manifold realities of things."
Too late now but it would have been interesting to share a quiet drink with Abdu'l-Baha to further explore this subject. His of course would be non alcoholic if that was necessary !
It seems a concise way of expressing the obvious reality that the Cosmos and therefore "Nature" consists of a number of different hierarchical levels. The world of Galaxies is not the same as the world of Stars which is not the same as the world of Planets which is not the same as the world of Man which is not the same as the world of Animals which is not the same as the world of Plant life, etc etc on to infinity. Though each includes the levels below it.
One can assume or maybe even experience using "As above, so below." that each of those higher levels also includes corresponding entities which might be called Archangels, Angels, spirits etc living in their corresponding world.
So yes, everything in the Cosmos is "Natural" even though for an entity existing in a lower level, what they glimpse of a higher level may seem impossible or "supernatural".
E. g. what is possible for a Man is supernatural from the point of view of an animal, plant or rock.
Self evidently there is conflict between science and religion ... but that is mostly a consequence of each isolating themselves from a wider view. From the point of view of being part of "Nature" as spoken of above, science and religion are just different points of view and methodology. In some earlier cultures, science was also the province of religious adepts. There was no conflict.
"....I would suggest you consider how many have left Christianity, Judaism and Islam towards atheism. Rational thought does not allow for the human heart to accept supernatural mindsets any more, and so it is natural to leave these age old thoughts behind. I think the Baha'i teachings address this rational discrepancies and enable participation in spiritual practices without foregoing science"
This may well be possible for those attracted to religion. IMO the current popular rise of so called Atheism is just another fad and reaction for most and they will revert when things quieten down.
However, it will never work for those who for whatever reason, are not open to the religious method and Bahai won't entice them by accepting science as legitimate. You need another stream that is outwardly not connected to Bahai and does not use terms such as God or prayer or spiritual practices !
As you know, attempts to change the direction of Mankind are not new and it is an ongoing endeavour. In this regard and to achieve a desirable shift in Man's perspective, it may be necessary to use methods such as "Sometimes there is no choice but to enclose truth in the form of a lie." and more recently, "When you go fishing you use bait that the fish likes, not strawberries and cream that you like."
Of course, both suggestions are an affront to those who consider themselves upright, forthright and honest.
They are the ones who usually don't last very long in the jungle of reality.
"Personally, I find it unfathomable to see how any human being can reject the teachings of elimination of all prejudice, universal education, equality of men and women, independent investigation of truth, consultation to guide decision making in all aspects of human affairs, harmony of science and religion, a universal auxiliary language.
One does not need to be a Baha'i to agree with these principles."
You are not alone in finding that unfathomable. As pointed out in an earlier post if you discussed that with most reasonable people they would agree with it. Until the kick off whistle sounded !
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